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Berkeley=20 in the Sixties

Dialogue=20 with a (New Messianic) Hasidic Jew

Did=20 Stalin Have a Deathbed Conversion? What About=20 Trotsky?

Do=20 Babies Go to Hell?

Education:=20 The Three-Legged Stool

From=20 Fig Leaves to Fur Coats

God,=20 Evil and the Holocaust

How=20 Can a Just God Order the Slaughter of Men, Women and=20 Children?

How=20 Can I Know I'm Going to Heaven?

How=20 Should A Christian Think About Alcohol?

How=20 Do We Know Christ Rose from the Dead? And Who Wrote = the=20 Bible?

I=20 Fear I Have Committed the Unforgiveable Sin!

I=20 Find the Argument for a Wednesday Crucifixion Most=20 Compelling

If=20 Jehovah Isn't the Real Name of God, What Is?

If=20 the Biblical Documents Are So Reliable, How Do You = Explain the=20 Differences?

If=20 the Trinity Doctrine is Correct, Then Why Isn't It in = the=20 Bible?

Is=20 It True That Some NT Documents were First Written in=20 Aramaic/Syriac and THEN in Greek?

Is=20 There a Second Chance to Believe After = Death?

Is=20 There a Version of the Bible that Agrees with the = Chester=20 Beatty Manuscripts?

Isn'= t=20 the Old Testament Just a Rip-Off of Older Tales From = Other=20 Cultures?

Jimmy=20 Williams Recalls Debate with Madalyn Murray O'Hair at=20 SMU

Jonah=20 in the Whale

Man=20 in Search of Himself

Rights=20 and Wrongs

The=20 Archaeological Evidence for the Bible is=20 Non-Existent!

The=20 Christian and the Arts

The=20 First Christmas Wreath

The=20 Great Light

The=20 Most Important Decision of Your Life

The=20 Muses

The=20 Social and Historical Impact of Christianity

The=20 Stable

Violence=20 in the Schoolyard: Why?

What=20 Do We Do When Critics Point to the Atrocities of the=20 Crusades?

What=20 Is the Sin Unto Death?

Where's=20 the Glory?

Why=20 A Moral Life Won't Get Us to Heaven

Why=20 did God allow animals to be eaten and = sacrificed?

Why=20 Did the Book of Jacob Get Changed to the Book of=20 James?

Why=20 Does Mark's Gospel Omit the Resurrection and the = Virgin=20 Birth?

"You=20 Are Gods"?

Q=20 & A

Archives

Probe=20 Ministries > Founder's=20 Corner > Do Babies Go to = Hell?

Do Babies Go = to Hell?

Do you believe that babies go to hell or not? = Please=20 support your answer with Scripture.

This is an issue that challenges or questions the = justice=20 of God. It is a legitimate question, and I must say at = the=20 outset we cannot give a total answer. But there are = passages=20 in the Bible which shed a great deal of light on the = subject.=20 I will try to address the ones that have come to my = mind which=20 I think bear directly or indirectly on your question = of the=20 innocence/accountability of children.

Generally speaking, we are asking the question, " = What do=20 children know and when do they know it? And the key = issue here=20 is one of comprehension of, or the understanding of = the Gospel=20 message. This is not only true for children, it is = true for=20 adults. When Philip saw the Ethiopian eunuch sitting = in his=20 chariot reading Isaiah 53, he was instructed by the = Holy=20 Spirit (Acts 8:29) to "Go up and join this chariot." = Philip=20 asked him if he understood what he = was=20 reading. The eunuch replied, "Well, how could I, = unless=20 someone guides Me?" (v. 31). Acts 8:32-40 goes on to = relate=20 that Philip explained how this Eunuch could become a=20 Christian. He responded and was baptized.

My point in beginning with this incident is because = there=20 can be no salvation without an understanding of the = gospel=20 message. We find Paul throughout the book of Acts = reasoning,=20 debating, contending with people so they might = understand the=20 message of salvation. And so children must be old = enough to=20 understand the gospel, which involves = a=20 comprehension of their own personal sin and guilt.

This brings the next question: At what age = would that=20 be? I am sorry that I cannot give an affirmative = answer=20 since the Scripture never pinpoints clearly the exact = age when=20 this occurs. The Talmud from ancient times designated = age=20 thirteen for boys ("Bar Mitzvah,"=97cf. = Judaism, Arthur=20 Hertzberg, p. 100) and twelve for girls ("Bat = Mizvah"). This=20 was the time when Jewish boys and girls became = responsible for=20 themselves and were to observe all the rituals, = feasts, etc.,=20 incumbent upon them as members of the Jewish = community. It was=20 also the time when the boys were allowed (called) to = read the=20 Torah as full members of the worshipping = community.

The confirmation services for the young which are = practiced=20 in all Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and some Protestant = churches=20 are based on the earlier Jewish traditions above. All = of them,=20 including the Jewish community, have traditionally set = the=20 "age of accountability at about age twelve.

It is also interesting that Luke records the = incident at=20 the temple where a twelve-year-old Jesus lagged behind = his=20 family and was found (three days later!) in the temple = "sitting amidst the teachers both listening to them = and asking=20 them questions. . .And all who heard Him were amazed = at His=20 understanding and His answers." (Luke 2:46,47).

We can glean from other Old Testament passages = additional=20 insights:

1. I Samuel 1:22-18; 3:1-19: Hannah, married to = Elkanah,=20 was barren. She made a vow to the Lord that if He = would give=20 her a son, she would dedicate him to the Lord for = lifelong=20 service. God graciously did so, and Samuel was born. = Hannah=20 cared for him and told her husband she would not go = up to=20 the Tabernacle (at Shiloh) for the annual sacrifice = (Day of=20 Atonement) until she had weaned Samuel, saying, = "I will=20 not go up until the child is weaned; then I will = bring him,=20 that he may appear before the Lord and stay there = forever."=20 (1:22).

The weaning of Hebrew (and other ancient) = children did=20 not occur until two or three years, and nursing may = have=20 extended beyond to perhaps age five. Therefore = Samuel was a=20 very young boy when he was dedicated to the service = of the=20 temple. Hannah says on this occasion, "For this boy = I=20 prayed, and the Lord has given me my petition which = I asked=20 of Him. . .So I have also dedicated him to the Lord; = as long=20 as he lives he is dedicated to the Lord. And she = worshipped=20 the Lord there."(1:27,28). We are also told in 2:11 = that=20 "the boy ministered to the Lord before Eli the=20 priest."Verses 2:18-21 indicate that the boy was = visited=20 each year by his mother, at which time she would = bring him a=20 new, little robe. Several years are indicated in = this=20 passage, including the fact that Hannah had given = birth to=20 three more sons and two daughters. We can conclude, = since=20 Samuel was at least three or four years old when = initially=20 brought to the temple, he would at least be nine or = ten, and=20 could have been even older (a teenager) when he had = his=20 visitation and call from the Lord in I Samuel = 3:1-21. The=20 critical verse in this chapter is as follows: "Now = Samuel=20 did not yet know the Lord, nor had = the word=20 of the Lord yet been revealed to him." (v. 7).

So here again, Samuel could well have been around = age=20 twelve when this event occurred, an incident = pointing out a=20 demarcation in his life=97of "not knowing" and then = "knowing"=20 the Lord.

2. Another passage which marks out this = demarcation is=20 found in Nehemiah 8:1-3. After Nehemiah and the Jews = had=20 rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem they gathered = together in=20 worship to hear Ezra the Scribe read the Torah: "And = the=20 people gathered as one man, . . .and they asked Ezra = the=20 scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which = the Lord=20 had given to Israel. Then Ezra the priest brought = the law=20 before the assembly of men, women, and all = who could=20 listen with understanding. And he = read=20 from it before the Water Gate from early morning = until=20 midday, in the presence of men and women, = those who=20 could understand; and all the = people were=20 attentive to the book of the law. . = .And=20 they read from the book, from the law of God, = translating to=20 give the sense so that they=20 understood the reading (v.8). By=20 implication, the younger children=97those without=20 understanding=97were not = present.

3. Another interesting "accountability" issue is = found in=20 the Torah which involves the numbering of the = fighting men=20 of Israel in the book of Numbers. We are told in = Numbers 1=20 that Moses was instructed to "take a census of all = the=20 congregation of the sons of Israel, and their = families. .=20 .according to the number of names, every male, head = by head=20 from twenty years and upward, = whoever is=20 able to go out to war in Israel." (1:2,3). This = passage=20 informs us that there were no = teenagers in=20 Israel's army. This census was taken at the end of = the=20 entire year the Israelites spent at Mt. Sinai where = they=20 received the Law, and during which time they built = the=20 Tabernacle and organized themselves into a = well-defined=20 community. They were now to embark upon the conquest = of=20 Canaan. However, they were called upon to postpone = that=20 conquest because of their unbelief and disobedience = at=20 Kadesh Barnea. God sent them into the wilderness for = forty=20 years after their "Reconnaissance" of Canaan by the = twelve=20 spies ended in failure.

After this forty-year exile we read in = Deuteronomy=20 2:14-16, "Now the time that it took for us to come = from=20 Kadesh-barnea to (here has been) thirty-eight years; = until=20 all the generation of the men of war perished from = within=20 the camp, as the Lord had sworn to them. Moreover = the hand=20 of the Lord was against them, to destroy them from = within=20 the camp, until they all perished."

What is significant here is that those men who = perished=20 were those selected for the army forty years earlier = whose=20 ages ranged from twenty to age sixty. The Bible says = that by=20 thirty-eight years later, all of these men, the men = of=20 "unbelief," had now died off, leaving only the new=20 generation which would be allowed to enter = Canaan.=20 This new "fighting force" would include that = original group=20 of males (from age 1 to 19 (which would now be ages = 40 to=20 59) as well as all the males which had been born = during the=20 roughly forty years of Wilderness wanderings. So = here again,=20 there is an "age of accountability" factor taken = into=20 account by the Lord and His servant, Moses. There = was no=20 judgment upon this younger group of males. They were = allowed=20 to enter Canaan and participate in the conquest of = the Land.=20

There is another passage that touches on this = later "age=20 of accountability" from the life of Jehoiachin, II = Kings=20 24:8: "Jehoiachin was eighteen = years old=20 when he became king. . .and he did = evil in=20 the sight of the Lord, according to all that his = father had=20 done." So here we find an eighteen- year-old king = who is=20 viewed by the Lord as being accountable for the evil = he had=20 already done.

I put this section in, but I don't personally = believe=20 that exempting the "under-twenty-year-olds" at the = time of=20 the Exodus is a likely precedent for an age of=20 accountability. Furthermore, we find in the legal=20 regulations of the Torah that a disobedient and = unmanageable=20 teenager was responsible for his actions, and could = be=20 stoned to death by the community! This could occur = for=20 cursing his parents, violence, drunkenness, = adultery, and so=20 forth. So, in my thinking, the ten to twelve year = age would=20 seem more likely for an age of understanding or=20 accountability.

4. Another passage which bears upon our question = comes=20 from the life of David, and specifically the outcome = of his=20 sin with Bathsheba and the premeditated murder of = her=20 husband, Uriah the Hittite (II Samuel 11 & 12). = You will=20 recall that David lusted after Bathsheba's great = beauty and=20 committed adultery with her, after which she became = pregnant=20 (11:1-5). David gave instructions to have Uriah = placed "in=20 the fiercest battle and withdraw from him so that he = may be=20 struck down and die." (11:15). After Uriah's death, = David=20 brought Bathsheba to his house as his wife, and she = bore him=20 a son. (11:27) Nathan the prophet confronts David = with his=20 sin and says, "because by this deed you have given = occasion=20 to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child = also that=20 is born to you shall surely die.: Then the Lord = struck the=20 child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he = was very=20 sick." (12:14,15).

The child lingered for seven days and then died. = During=20 this time, David prayed and fasted and laid on the = ground.=20 When the child died the servants were afraid to tell = David,=20 but he saw them whispering and they finally told = him, "He is=20 dead." (12:19).

When David heard this, he got up, washed himself, = changed=20 his clothes, asked for food and ate. His servants = were=20 perplexed by this: while the child lived, David = mourned.=20 When the child died, David got up and ate food. They = wondered why. David said, "While the child was still = alive,=20 I fasted and wept; for I said, Who knows, the Lord = may be=20 gracious to me, that the child may live. But now he = has=20 died; why should I fast.? Can I bring him back = again?=20 I shall go to him, but he will not = return=20 to me."(12:22,23)

David has a view of death and immortality which = expresses=20 itself in this incident involving the death of a = child.=20 David believes in the after life. In Psalm 23 he = concludes=20 by saying: "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow = me all=20 the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house = of the=20 Lord forever."So for David there was a place for the = dead,=20 including children=97the house, or the dwelling = place, of the=20 Lord. David also speaks of this in Psalm 16:9,10 = where he=20 says, "For thou wilt not abandon (leave) my soul in = Sheol=20 (the grave); Neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to = see=20 (experience) decay (corruption)." David believes in = the=20 resurrection of the body=97for himself, and for the = Messiah=20 (the Holy One) (see also Acts 13:35). Job says = something=20 very similar: "And as for me, I know that my = Redeemer lives,=20 and at the last He will take His stand on the earth. = Even=20 after my skin is flayed (corrupted) Yet without my = flesh I=20 shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, and whom = my eyes=20 shall see and not another."

The point of David's perspective is that he = believes that=20 the child is still alive and in God's presence, = David=20 anticipates that when he dies, he will join = his=20 little son in the house of the Lord: "I shall go to=20 him."

5. Finally, we have the teachings of Jesus = Himself. In=20 Matthew 19:13-15, our Lord says as the children we = being=20 hindered from coming near to Him, "Let the = children=20 alone, and do not hinder them from coming to me; for = the=20 kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these, and = after laying=20 His hands on them, He departed. . ."

Christ has a special love for little children. = Why He=20 associates children with the Kingdom of Heaven is = because it=20 is the place of the innocent, the blameless. It = would appear=20 that Jesus sees children in this light. The whole = trend of=20 Scripture seems to teach that the innocents who are = too=20 young to sin and too young to accept Christ = intelligently=20 (with understanding!), are safe in the arms = of a=20 just and holy God.

We need never fear about God being unjust. He = cannot be.=20 His mercy and justice are from everlasting to = everlasting. I=20 therefore conclude, that there will be no children in = hell.=20 There will also be no retarded, or otherwise=20 mentally-incapacitated individuals there, those who = cannot=20 fully comprehend and understand what Christ has = accomplished=20 on their behalf at Calvary.

In summary, I think we can conclude the = following:

First, that there is some period of grace afforded = the=20 young before they have developed an understanding to = fully=20 comprehend the gospel message and its implications for = their=20 lives.

Second, there seems to be good scriptural support = that all=20 infants, like David's little son, go immediately, in = their=20 innocence, into the arms of the Lord.

Third, that the likely range of such an age of=20 "accountability " may occur around the time of = puberty.

Fourth, that we are not saying children younger = than this=20 "accountability age" commit no sin (as sinful = tendencies and=20 acts occur quite early in children), and because of = their=20 fallen nature, they do these things spontaneously, = things=20 which they have definitely NOT learned from their = parents or=20 their friends). What we are saying is that up to the = point=20 when they reach clear understanding, they do not come = under=20 the judgment of the Law.

I'm sure that much more could be gleaned from the=20 scriptures on this, but these passages came to my = mind. At=20 least it's a start at answering your question, D____. = I hope=20 this helps.

Jimmy Williams, Founder
Probe Ministries

Yes Sir, that does help. = Thanks very=20 much. What you wrote is what I've long believed, = without=20 really knowing how to defend it biblically.

Now for a follow-up question which seems to spring = quite=20 logically from what you wrote: If God exempts from = holding=20 accountable for their sins those who are not old = enough to=20 have "understanding," and those of any age who are = incapable=20 of having "understanding" (such as the mentally = retarded), is=20 it also possible, Scripturally speaking, that He = exempts in=20 some measure those who have never heard of Jesus at=20 all=97judging them perhaps by whatever standard He = utilized for=20 those before Christ (lived), both Jews and non-Jews, = some of=20 whom certainly gained eternal life, rather than = automatically=20 condemning them for not accepting the Savior of whom = they=20 never heard?

I would suggest you check the Probe web site and = look for=20 three articles which address this question: "What=20 About the Person Who Never Heard of Jesus," = "Is=20 Jesus the Only Savior?" and "Salvation:=20 A Second Chance."

I would say in addition, to your remarks about Old=20 Testament believers, that there were two kinds of = people=20 before Christ just as there are two kinds of people = now:=20 believers and=20 unbelievers.

It is helpful for me to think of this in terms of a = painting. As early as Genesis 3:15, immediately after = the=20 "Disobedience/Fall" God began to reveal His plan of=20 redemption. He speaks there of the "Seed" of a Woman" = who=20 would one day crush the head of Satan = and=20 destroy his power and influence on the earth.

As we move through the Old Testament, God = continues, with=20 broad strokes at first, to sketch out the details of = Who this=20 Person would be. By the time we get to Malachi, a = fairly=20 accurate portrait of Messiah and His Mission has been=20 provided. The New Testament is the fulfillment of that = unfolding from the Old.

Jesus said, "Your Father Abraham saw my=20 day (time, era) and rejoiced in it" (John = 8:16). Now,=20 what did He see (comprehend, understand)? Not the=20 whole picture revealed in the New = Testament,=20 but enough information for him to have a basis (God's = promise=20 of a Messiah) for his trust, his belief, at that = time.

Noah is another example. There is nothing directly=20 mentioned about the Messiah in the Noah narrative = (except the=20 fact that the Ark itself is a type of = Christ=97those inside the Ark were saved; those = outside the Ark=20 perished), the important principle is that God = revealed some=20 things to Noah and asked him to be obedient to = them.

We cannot understand this Old Testament Salvation = issue=20 unless we see clearly what God was doing. What was He = doing=20 from Genesis 3:15 to the end of the Old Testament? He = was=20 progressively revealing more and more details about = His=20 promised Messiah. Hebrews 1:1-2 says, "God spoke long = ago to=20 the fathers by the prophets and in may portions and in = many=20 ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, = whom He=20 appointed heir of all things, through whom also He = made the=20 world."

It seems apparent that the Old Testament saints had = some "light" and they were responsible to = respond to=20 it. The CROSS has always been the basis for = our=20 salvation. Those who came before it looked = forward in=20 time to when it would be fulfilled. Those of = us who=20 have lived after Jesus's Day look back to = that time=20 when it was accomplished. This is the = basis=20 for our salvation. The means of our salvation = is=20 always faith, encompassing all who lived = before and=20 all who lived after the Cross who "believed God" and = whatever=20 revelatory information they had at that time. And the=20 results of our faith are always expressed in = being=20 obedient to those things which God has revealed. I = hope this=20 information and the other articles I have recommended = you to=20 read will answer your above question.

Do Babies Go to Hell? #2

This is one of those items that, as you know, God = has not=20 revealed. Consider this: If we think they don't, that = is, that=20 God takes them all to Heaven, then abortion and the = killing of=20 those before the so-called age of accountability would = be a=20 great way to have more babies go to Heaven. Consider, = what=20 percent of those that reach the so-called age of=20 accountability get saved/born again. By aborting and = killing=20 the young children we could increase that to 100 = percent. This=20 would of course make abortion and murder = good.

Thank you for this response to my remarks about the = above=20 topic.

First of all, I respectfully disagree with your = first=20 statement. It seems to me that, while we do not have a = total=20 answer to this question from the Scriptures, I = enumerated=20 several lines of thought pertaining to the question, = one of=20 which was a clear, biblical example recorded of a = child who=20 had died and went to heaven. So I don't think you = could say=20 "God has not revealed anything about this issue to us. = We do=20 have some information and insight from the=20 Scriptures.

So I will restate my conviction that I do believe = there are=20 not=97nor will there ever be=97any children = in hell.

Secondly, I don't follow your logic in your next = statement.=20 Given my view, any infant death=97whether from = abortion,=20 accident, disease, assault or other causes=97does not = matter:=20 All babies go to heaven. And so aborting = children=20 would not be a great way to have more babies = go to=20 Heaven, as you suggest, since all of them go to = Heaven.

Thirdly, you have tacked on to this another issue = which=20 must be kept separate from the above. You say, I = think, that=20 we would be doing some persons (those who are = not=20 going to become Christians after they have reached the = age of=20 accountability when they are held responsible to God = for their=20 choices and behavior) a big "favor" by aborting them. = I hope I=20 am reading you right.

There are several things very wrong about what you = propose:=20 (a) I would assume that you believe, as I do, that the = "termination of a pregnancy" (i.e., a euphemism for = killing=20 and destroying an unborn infant) is murder. This is a=20 violation of the Sixth Commandment (Ex. 20:13). This=20 commandment alone is in opposition to what you = suggest. (b)=20 Further, in order to carry out such a task, you would=20 literally have to be God Himself, since you don't know = which=20 ones are the "fledgling" non-believers upon whom you = are to=20 perform your acts of "mercy." (c) But why stop there? = Why not=20 go ahead and do the same with the mentally-impaired? = The=20 comatose? The "non compos mentis" elderly? = Would they=20 not also qualify? Something is wrong with this = picture.

Fourthly, you say that carrying out such an = enterprise=20 would "make abortion and murder good." This is = actually very=20 far from what I view as a Scriptural perspective. Paul = asks,=20 "Shall we sin (continue in sin) so that (we can see) = grace=20 abound? (Romans 6:1)" In other words, should we take = advantage=20 of God's forgiveness of sins through Christ and go on = sinning=20 so we can see His marvelous Grace go to work to cover = it? Paul=20 says, "God forbid." He elaborates on this later on: = "Let love=20 be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cleave to = what is=20 good (12:9)." Earlier Paul defends his actions against = those=20 who were criticizing him and his colleagues, = "slanderously=20 reporting that we say, 'let us do = evil that good may = come.'=20 Their condemnation is just (Romans 3:8)." In = Psalm=20 109:3-5 David's words could easily be applied to the = unborn:=20 "They have spoken against me. . they have also = surrounded me=20 with words of hatred, And fought against me = without=20 cause. In return for my love (innocence) they act = as my=20 accusers;...Thus they have repaid me evil for = good.=20 ...and hatred for my love." = In II=20 Corinthians 13:7,8 Paul says, "Now we pray to God = that you=20 do no wrong...but that you may do what is = right=20 . ...For we can do nothing against the=20 truth, but only for the truth." In = Proverbs=20 17:13 it says, "He who returns evil for good, Evil = will not=20 depart from his house." And "He who justifies = the=20 wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, Both of = them alike=20 are an abomination to the Lord (vs. 15,16)." = And=20 Moses says, "I call heaven and earth to witness = against you=20 today, that I have set before you life and=20 death, the blessing and the curse. So = choose=20 life in order that you may live, you and your = seed, by=20 loving the Lord your God, by obeying His = voice, and=20 by holding fast to Him; for this is your life = and the=20 length of your days (Deut. 30:19,20)." And finally, = James=20 says, "Let no one say when he is tempted, =91I am = being tempted=20 by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He = Himself=20 does not tempt anyone [to do evil] = (James=20 1:13)."

The principle is pretty clear: "It is never = right to do wrong in order to do=20 right." "It is never good to do=20 evil in order to do = good."

I hope this answers your question, ______ .

God's blessings,

Jimmy Williams, Founder
Probe Ministries =

Do Babies Go To Hell #3

First, I want to say that our family has been = blessed by=20 the ministry of Probe. I've caught up on my mail, and = just=20 read the answer to the questions "Do Babies Go to = Hell?" There=20 is a passage in Romans that always comes to mind in = this=20 regard. It is Romans 7:9.

I was once alive apart from the Law; but = when=20 the commandment came, sin became alive and I=20 died;

This is "the" verse that really spoke to me about = the=20 existence of an "age of accountability," whatever that = age may=20 be. Being a Jew, and a Pharisee at that, I'm sure Paul = had a=20 knowledge of the law on some level at an early age. = But it=20 wasn't until it "came" to him (he understood it?) that = he was=20 accountable, i.e. he "died" (came under condemnation = which he=20 knew was worthy of death).

Just though I'd pass this on. I might not have = bothered to=20 respond, not wanting to take time to look up the = verse, but I=20 just read Romans 7 this morning so it was "quite" = fresh in my=20 mind. And I can never read this without thinking of = this=20 point.

May the Lord continue to bless your ministry.

PraiSing Him,

______

Dear ______,

Thank you for your e-mail and comments on Romans = 7:9. It=20 really relates to this subject. I am glad you are = benefiting=20 from the Probe web site. Thank you for expressing your = appreciation, which is a real encouragement to all the = Probe=20 Staff.

Jimmy Williams
Probe Ministries

Do Babies Go To Hell #4

I frequent your web site and have enjoyed it = thoroughly. It=20 has helped to shape me and has been a source of God's = truth=20 for me. For that I am grateful!! I don't think that = once I=20 have ever felt that you have been different than what = God's=20 truth says. Below I raise some questions about the = recent=20 article about babies' salvation. Please comment to = help me=20 understand how you feel. Thanks.

First of all, the Bible says that "=85all have = sinned and=20 fall short of the glory of God." All we like sheep = have gone=20 astray, we have turned everyone to our own way. . ." = ". . .=20 there is none that doeth good, no not one." These = folks that=20 believe that children won't be held accountable for = their=20 sins, I believe, don't understand the fallen nature of = man and=20 the righteous character of an all-Holy God.

Even David had a handle on this doctrine when he = wrote in=20 Psalm 51: "Behold, I was shaped in iniquity and in sin = did my=20 mother conceive me."

It's important to note that the "all" and = "everyone" listed=20 above means all people, even babies, born and yet = unborn. We=20 are by nature sinful, which means we are spiritually = dead and=20 enemies of God. Spiritually-dead people (of any age) = cannot=20 make themselves spiritually alive any more than=20 physically-dead people can make themselves physically=20 alive.

Spiritually-dead babies are enemies of God and = separated=20 from Him and completely unable to change that = situation. The=20 nature of God is that He is totally just and = righteous. The=20 Bible says, "=85I am of purer eyes than to behold = iniquity."=20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." "I will by no = means=20 clear the guilty." He had sworn a "thousand" times in=20 Scripture to punish sin wherever He finds it. His = justice=20 demands that He do it. He cannot make any = exceptions.

So. . .this is why Jesus came to earth to die on = the cross.=20 If babies were not going to be held accountable for = their sins=20 (and would automatically go to heaven when they die) = as this=20 fellow teaches, then Jesus wasn't needed for them. = This path=20 would lead us to believe that Jesus came to die only = for those=20 who have reached that mystical "age of accountability" = and=20 understand their sinful condition and can make a = decision=20 regarding the gospel. It is true that as we mature and = do=20 become aware of our thoughts and behavior and choices = that we=20 will be held accountable for them. Those who assert = that the=20 age of accountability is when children become = responsible=20 before God, yet none of them seem to know when that = age is.=20 Wouldn't it seem important to know that?

One more thing. By stating that we must reach this=20 (unknown) age before we can understand and believe and = thus be=20 responsible for our salvation puts some of the credit = for our=20 being saved upon US, doesn't it?

The business of enlightening souls and saving same = belongs=20 to the Holy spirit. Martin Luther stated, "I cannot by = my own=20 reason or strength believe in God or come to Him=85" = We are=20 saved by God alone. "By grace are you saved through = faith, and=20 that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of = works,=20 lest any man should boast."

We are accountable for our sins from conception and = can=20 only be saved when the Holy Spirit gives us this faith = and=20 changes us from spiritually dead to spiritually alive. = This is=20 why we embrace Baptism. In I Peter 3:21, Peter states: = "Therefore we conclude, that Baptism doth also save = us, not=20 the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer = of a=20 good conscience toward God, through the resurrection = of Jesus=20 Christ."

In Baptism, we are responding to a command of = Christ's and=20 the Holy Spirit promises to save us through the water = and the=20 Word by this act. What do you think of this? =

Thank you for your recent e-mail. I appreciate the = fact=20 that you have found benefit from the Probe Website. I = am the=20 fellow you refer to who is responsible for writing the = e-mail,=20 "Do Babies Go to Hell?"

In your first two paragraphs you mention the fact = that from=20 conception babies bear the stamp of sin. I have no = problem=20 with this as long as we understand what that means. = And what=20 it means is that babies are members of a fallen race = (See my=20 discussion on this in E-Mail #1). Sin is passed on = genetically=20 from the male. This was why the Virgin Birth was = necessary and=20 specifically why Jesus was "without sin." He is = therefore the=20 only exception to the general rule.

And I also agree with you that apart from the = working of=20 God, all humans are spiritually dead until they hear = the=20 Gospel, respond to it and are born again into the = family of=20 God.

You say that "spiritually-dead babies (born and = unborn) are=20 enemies of God, separated from Him, and are completely = unable=20 to change that situation." And I agree with you on the = basis=20 of what I have just said above. But I want to ask you = a=20 question. Do you then believe that every embryo, every = unborn=20 fetus, and all toddlers, let's say, from the beginning = of time=20 until now, are actually in hell? What if we add four = and=20 five-year olds? Them too? I don't think so. But this = is what=20 you are asserting to be true.

I point you back to a review of my original = discussion in=20 E-Mail #1 about an alternative to your conclusion and = one=20 which has some (not exhaustive) support in the = Scriptures.=20 Specifically, I would ask you to focus on David's = experience=20 with his newborn son (from Bathsheba) who became sick = and died=20 seven days after his birth (II Samuel 11 and 12). = After the=20 child has died, David says, "I shall go to him, but he = will=20 not return to me (12:22,23)." Now here is a baby that = had, as=20 we all do, a sin nature, but didn't go to = Hell. In=20 Psalm 23 we have a clear indication of where David = felt he=20 would be after death: "I will dwell in the house of = the Lord=20 forever." And he anticipated that he would again see = his=20 little son.

In your next paragraph you make the assumption that = those=20 who have not reached the age of accountability have no = need of=20 a Savior. I don't follow your logic. On the basis of = your own=20 premise that all in Adam are tainted with sin and are = in need=20 of a redeemer, I don't understand why you would say = His death=20 would not apply to these young ones as well. You do = admit that=20 "it is true that as we mature and do become = aware of=20 our thoughts and behavior and choices that we will be = held=20 accountable for them." That is exactly the = point. The=20 primary reason that Christian parents hesitate to = explain the=20 Gospel to very young children is because those parents = want=20 them to be old enough to fully UNDERSTAND what Jesus = did for=20 them.

This leads me on to answer your question about = "pinning=20 down" what/when that age might be. I don't think we = can=20 arbitrarily pick an exact age for everyone. There are = too many=20 variables. But we do know this: there are FOUR = components=20 necessary for one to come to a saving knowledge of = Jesus=20 Christ. We find them in Paul's interchange with Lydia = in Acts=20 16:14: "And a certain woman named Lydia. . .was (1)=20 listening, and the (2) Lord = opened=20 her heart to respond to the (3) = things=20 spoken by (4) Paul."

In Acts 9:27-39 we have the account of Philip's = encounter=20 with the Ethiopian Eunuch, who was reading Isaiah 53 = out loud=20 as he sat in his chariot. Philip ran up and asked him, = "Do you=20 understand what you are reading? The = eunuch=20 answered, "How could I, unless someone = guides=20 me?" You know the rest of the story. My point here is = that=20 even adults don't become Christians = until=20 they, with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, come = to=20 understand the gospel and see it with = the=20 eyes of faith. Would it be any less = important=20 for children to have the same understanding?

We also find in the Scriptures times when God=20 overlooked sin under certain = circumstances as=20 the redemptive work unfolded through time: "the = redemption=20 which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly = as a=20 propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to=20 demonstrate His righteousness , because of the = passing=20 over of the sins previously=20 committed in the forbearance of God = (Romans=20 3:24-25." (See also Acts 17:30; Romans 5:13,14). You = will also=20 find other, similar elements in the first e-mail.

In your next paragraph you indicate you feel = special credit=20 is due those who come to a place of accountability to = God, and=20 that their use of reason or comprehension somehow = negates the=20 work of the Spirit. I point you back to Lydia. NO ONE = COMES TO=20 CHRIST WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THE GOSPEL. This involves = reason. And part of that reasoning is to = comprehend=20 Romans 6:23=97it is, as you mention, by grace = and not=20 of works, "lest anyone might boast."

You conclude with some comments about baptism, and = quote I=20 Peter 3:21. I am not sure why you included this in the = discussion, but let me comment: First of all, I am = wondering=20 if you are including believer baptism as part = of the=20 Gospel: that is, you believe one does not become a = Christian=20 when he believes the Gospel, but rather that = you only=20 accomplish when you are baptized. I am assuming that = you are=20 not here referring to infant baptism, which, = incidentally, is=20 used by some segments of Christendom to do something = to=20 cover these young ones until they come of an = age when=20 they can understand the Gospel. I do not = personally=20 believe that baptizing an infant with water, without = an=20 understanding of the Gospel, accomplishes = anything.=20 It isn't even mentioned in Scripture.

Further, Paul tells us clearly in Romans 1:16 that = he is=20 "not ashamed of the gospel, for=20 it is the power of = God=20 unto salvation for every one who=20 believes." And so it is clear that = the=20 Gospel is the power of God = unto=20 Salvation, and nothing else. But we find in 1 = Corinthians 1:17 that Paul clearly=20 distinguishes between the Gospel and Baptism: = "For=20 Christ did not send me to baptize, = but to=20 preach the gospel." Evidently, Paul = does not=20 include baptism as part of the gospel, but rather saw = it as=20 the appropriate response of obedience following one's=20 conversion. Even the verse you quote from Peter must = be=20 carefully read: Peter qualifies his statement about = baptism by=20 making sure he is not misunderstood. He appears to me = to be=20 saying that water will not wash away sin, but rather, = in=20 obedience to the command of Christ, = the=20 believer, in good conscience toward God, gives his = answer, or=20 his response, to the truth of the Gospel by submitting = to=20 baptism. Baptism is a public testimony of one's inner=20 commitment to the Person and Work of Christ: "The word = is near=20 you, in your mouth, and in your=20 heart.=97That is, the word of faith = which we=20 are preaching, that if you confess = with your=20 mouth Jesus as Lord, and = believe=20 in your heart that God = raised Him=20 from the dead, you shall be saved; = for with=20 the heart man = believes,=20 resulting in righteousness, and with the=20 mouth he confesses,=20 resulting in salvation.

You asked me to comment on these issues and I have = tried to=20 do this as honestly as I can from my understanding of = God's=20 Word. You may not be comfortable with all of my = responses, but=20 I have given you my "best shot."

May the Lord bless you and your family,

Jimmy Williams, Founder
Probe Ministries

About the Author

3D"" James= =20 F. Williams is the founder and past=20 president of Probe Ministries International, and = currently=20 serves as Minister at Large. He holds degrees from = Southern=20 Methodist University (B.A.) and Dallas Theological = Seminary=20 (Th.M.). He also has pursued inter-disciplinary = doctoral=20 studies (a.b.d.) in the humanities at the University = of Texas=20 at Dallas.

Over a thirty-five year period, he = visited,=20 lectured, and counseled on more than 180 university = campuses=20 in the United States, Canada, Europe, and the former = Soviet=20 Union. He also served on the faculties of the = American, Latin=20 American, and European Institutes of Biblical = Studies.

What is = Probe?=20

Probe Ministries is a non-profit ministry whose = mission is=20 to assist the church in renewing the minds of = believers with a=20 Christian worldview and to equip the church to engage = the=20 world for Christ. Probe fulfills this mission through = our Mind=20 Games conferences for youth and adults, our 3-minute = daily=20 radio program, and our extensive Web site at http://www.probe.org/.

Further information about Probe's materials and = ministry=20 may be obtained by contacting us at:

Probe=20 Ministries
2001 W. Plano Parkway, Suite = 2000
Plano TX=20 75075
(972) 480-0240
info@probe.org
http://www.probe.org/
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What is = Probe?=20

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